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Thread: Designer Diary/Change Log 6th March 2018

  1. #1
    Designer Cad's Avatar
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    Jul 2017

    Designer Diary/Change Log 6th March 2018

    Hi All,

    I wanted to start doing designer diaries to cover what we have been doing with the game, so here goes. If you have any feedback about the content or about the way we are doing these (even if it is just to say that you like them) please reply to this thread.

    We had a lot of feedback at the Beta Weekend and lots of input from both the attendees and the viewers at home. The game seemed to go down very well and we were pleased with the issues that came up.

    To answer some of the questions that have been brought up (the italicised area is info that was covered in the Dice Change Problems thread for these that haven’t seen it);

    We decided to change because of the input of people coming to visit at shows. At the same time we decided to go with a system that maintained the spirit of the old one. So instead of going with combat 3+ on a d6 we continued having the ability to create your combat pool and your characters down different routes. A YYY ( 3 yellow dice) combat character is a very different beast than a B (blue) combat character, the blue is more likely to consistently hit while the 3 yellow is more likely to roll a double hit even though it is less likely to hit in general.

    With regards to the card system there are a lot of comments on here that cover ground that we had gone through in the Alpha stage of the game and had found only intensified the competitive nature that can come about with regards to card decks. To cover some of them;

    Minimum Deck Size: This tends to either cause decks to be padded with more 0 cost low effect cards or penalise high command leaders as you had to base it off 6 turns worth of card draw. Or it would have almost no effect as the leaders with high command would still work through their decks quicker.

    Hand Size: A fixed hand size encourages more streamlined competitive decks, if players know that they are going to only have access to 6 cards or must discard they make sure those cards are as powerful as possible. You would also have to have a forced draw like in magic as otherwise people would always hold their best cards as quickly as possible and then not draw any more, this also can either penalise high command leaders or would mean you would have a fixed draw amount (say 2 cards a turn) which could lead to even more high powered competitive decks.

    Limited Play: This is a system we could try and I would base it off command and make it the same as the amount of momentum a unit can take (eg. Command +1) so that you maintain the same system. This means that units can only have X amount of cards played on them in a single action encouraging high command characters. But the issue is that this doesn’t fit very thematically as now you can have an orc warrior that has very low command be an expert swordsman and a great human general with high command but no real combat ability. The change would make characters become more homogenised.

    Originally, we had this system and tried it on an individual character basis using stamina and magika but the system involved much more book keeping.

    The thing we are thinking of doing currently is toning down some of the cards, things like Stand Against The Darkness, Hateful Blows, Marked Man and Talhoffen Salute among others are currently too powerful and need fixing.

    Regarding which models may use ability cards; any character or henchmen over level 5 may use ability cards. The reason level 1-4 henchmen are unable to use ability cards is to show the difference between characters and henchmen and to make level 5+ henchmen feel like mini characters.

    With regards to weapons; some of them are wrong for example the Great Axe has been pointed out as having only GG in combat but it should be BB. These need to be looked at and Jared has identified several.

    Some changes that will be coming out of the beta weekend so far are;

    The increase from defence for being attacked by multiple models is being removed from the game, this made henchmen very ineffective and lead to some of the issues with Henchmen attacking characters.

    When a model attacks an enemy model that is also in base contact with a friendly model they will gain 1 green dice to their attack for each friendly model. This is to make henchmen more useful for both characters and other henchmen and makes different weapons in henchmen units more viable.

    The fly special rule will be changed to state that the models are considered in line of sight of all models on the table and that they are at 48” range from all models on the table. This means they can be targeted by shooting attacks but with the appropriate range modifiers.

    The Mass Attack (X) special rule is being changed to state that equipment dice, ability card modifiers and special rules. Modifiers for additional friendly models in contact with the target cannot be used.

    A section will be added in the Ability Card chapter to cover magical shooting. As it is considered a shooting weapon. This will also include the fact that the model using a magical ability is unable to use another weapon in the same shoot action.

    Extensive changes to weapons, adding additional weapons like Battle-axes and breaking down some of the Pole Arms to give different levels i.e. Halberd, Pole Axe and Glaive. Large Shields are being added and some additional weapon tweaks are being done.

    Fighting Styles are having a large amount of changes, their bonuses to stats are being greatly reduced and based more thematically on their background as an example Florikson will now give the Mass Attack (G) special rule and Vargan will give a model Resilient (G) or increase their Resilient by 1 instead of a stat modifier. The costs are going up to 20 Gold a Fight Style.

    Magika Schools costs are going up to 15 Gold a Magika School.

    Faction Changes:

    Sell Sword Legacy: D6x5 Gold instead of D6x10 in income. So three characters would be 3D6x5 instead of 3D6x10 Gold. Change to odd jobs so that it is 5 Gold on a success and 10 Gold on a critical.

    Druggoi Covens Legacy: Change so that the modifier from characters is different

    Glutton +0
    Terror +1
    Druggoi +2
    Stalker +3

    This represents the fact that Glotton’s do not go out of their way to find food but that Stalkers are natural hunters.

    Hunt table changes so it will be very unlikely to get multiple Terrors in a single hunt (looking at you Stu).

    Druggoi Gain a new faction special rule called Call Of Blood: When an Eightfold Path Character is captured you may roll Green if a success they are turned, the Druggoi Coven gains them as a character with the Blood Brother (X) special rule where X is the name of the Druggoi Coven leader.

    Race changes; some of the models are having point or rule changes the main rule changes are below.

    Terror: This model gains the Crushing Blow Special Rule. Now 311 Gold.

    Goblin: These models are now SA G and gain the Untrustworthy special rule. Now 11 Gold.

    Card Changes: There will be several card changes, these will decrease their effects, but some card costs will be decreases because of it.

    Minor updates to the core rules: More examples added and some clarifications, eg. clarifying that the Active Player declares actions and the Reactive Player Declares reactions but for all rules purposes any of these are considered Actions (so any ability card that says use as part of a Shoot Action can be used as an action or reaction).

    I now realise this is more of a change log, but these haven’t been carried over or the rules updated. Let us know if you are interested in this information and if you have any feedback?
    Last edited by Cad; 03-06-2018 at 04:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Kickstarter Backer nakchak's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    I personally prefer a change log as i find it helps with regards to planning of testing if you know whats changed, plus should be easier to keep updated, especially if you are paying closer attention to the development, as opposed to people who may prefer to just pic up the consolidated changes as updates/errata's and play as is until the next rules version bump happens with these changes in them.

    One thing i would add is bullet points for each of the major changes being logged, with sub bullets for finer details.

  3. #3
    Kickstarter Backer KInG's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    I would prefer to be offered an updated main rules pdf with all changes in red.

    MainRules_060318.pdf for example

  4. #4
    Kickstarter Backer Alexis's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    Nice (France)
    First thank you for the update Cad.

    I enjoy reading your though on how to improve the game.
    I suggest that you keep posting why you do changes but in addition please try to have a document with clear updated rules.
    It could be a simple pdf with only changes or an updated rules book marked by date with changes highlighted.

  5. #5
    Kickstarter Backer Kerry Adie's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    Do Sell Swords still get the extra Green dice for their faction rule on top of the below?

    "When a model attacks an enemy model that is also in base contact with a friendly model they will gain 1 green dice to their attack for each friendly model. This is to make henchmen more useful for both characters and other henchmen and makes different weapons in henchmen units more viable."

    Good changes all in all Cad, I look forward to trying them out.

  6. #6
    Kickstarter Backer
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    Jul 2017
    Looks good CAD I understand and can see the benefit to the changes.... just a few comments on the updates..... in light of the changes to card format would it be better to play the cards onto the character, setting the card limit on that basis seems easier to keep track to me..... oh look his momentum is 4 and he has 3 cards in play..... the other things are all legacy changes.

    The alterations to sell swords seems harsh considering it's they only way then can hire they have gone from getting 3 kitted out henchmen to 1 on average ..... call of blood seems odd given they are immune ( or changed in a different way) to the effects of the Druggoi blood, is this a lore change or a lack of my understanding of the lore.... last of all the untrustworthy on Goblins seems to ruin the option of an all goblin force and makes goblin characters impossible or difficult to use (this could well be your intent)

  7. #7
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    Jul 2017
    I assume that the changes are not in force as yet for testing purposes?

  8. #8
    Kickstarter Backer Radegast's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    I vote for change log

  9. #9
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    Mar 2018
    Thanks for the time to give us an update Cad and I also vote for the change log.


  10. #10
    Designer Cad's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
    Hi Guys,

    Thank you for all the feedback, the changes aren't in effect and will be coming out as an updated set of rules, as King says V1.1.1 of the rules. This was more so we can discuss the upcoming changes before they have an effect.

    To answer some specifics;

    Kerry, they would get both sets of green dice, so being surrounded by Sell Swords is a dangerous proposition.

    To Tonka, the problem would be the card stack. You wouldn't know at what time each card had been played and this would still encourage all characters to have to have high command.

    With regards to the Sell Swords this is 1d6x5 for each character so on average for a 3 character warband you would receive an average of 50-55 gold (average on 3d6 of 10-11) plus about 15 gold from odd jobs. This would still be influenced by winning the game etc for additional d6. In Legacy games at the Beta weekend we saw a marked increase in the size of Sell Sword warbands over the other factions. This became more extreme when you consider they can just buy new characters unlike the others to increase their income. In fact I think after his first couple of Legacy games Andreas went from 500 gold to 1000 gold...

    Your right about Goblins and we will need to look at the Untrustworthy rule as we can change it so that Goblins are Untrustworthy (Goblin) where the Goblin is the exception. Although this is the exact opposite of how it is written for all the other rules but Untrustworthy (all but Goblins) seems a bit odd.

    With regard to the White Cloaks they are being turned in a different way, this is covered by some of the lore we haven't revealed yet to do with the Druggoi culture (yes they have one) and its interactions with White Cloaks. We will start feeding more information out regarding this in the future, but we had it pointed out to us that not revealing it sooner rather than later may cause more confusion.


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