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Thread: Question about material of Minis

  1. #1
    Kickstarter Backer Soulsorcerer's Avatar
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    Question about material of Minis

    Hi guys!

    Did hop on on the last 3 houres in the live chat...so I am not as informed as I should be...promis to catch up. But the servey today left me with one question.

    The KS gives the choice between PVS and Resin. I would like to be consistent with the material in the future...so what will be the material in retail?

    Cheers,Soulsorcerer

  2. #2
    Kickstarter Backer Radegast's Avatar
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    I think PVC for sets and single minis are resin

  3. #3
    We are intending for all minis to be available in both materials in the future. You may only be able to buy resin through our webstore though. We are looking into this and will be able to confirm though.

    Both materials will be available though.

  4. #4
    Kickstarter Backer Soulsorcerer's Avatar
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    Thx for the info! Now...I have many minis...resin,metal and hard plastic...but no PVC...at least not for a TT games. I know that there are many different PVCs...so I guess we are not talking boardgame class PVC with bending spears ect.?
    Could you say something about the pros and cons of your PVC and resin casts?!?

  5. #5
    Kickstarter Backer SableFox's Avatar
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    In general (but may not apply to 4Ground, since there are lots of different types of each)

    PVC: inexpensive (easy to mass produce), expensive but durable mounds = large production runs, robust (can survive game-play well), may warp and shrink, can have softer detail, paint sometimes peels (if prep is not good)

    Resin: expensive to produce, cheap mounds that wear-out quick = low production runs, fragile (may break if dropped or harshly handled), dimensionally stable, retains fine detail, often considered the best material for painting.

    I.e. both materials have pros and cons. Variability within each type of material can be larger than the differences between them (for example poor resin can be less detailed than good PVC).
    Last edited by SableFox; 07-26-2017 at 09:38 PM.

  6. #6
    Kickstarter Backer While's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to seeing the PVC minis! I'm not a huge fan of resin minis, although they can be really good, mostly I have had not so good experiences.

    I'm happy with the PVC minis of FFG's Imperial Assault, and I think Steamforged Games new Guild Ball starters are PVC, and they are very good.

  7. #7
    Kickstarter Backer ARBussey's Avatar
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    Did I hear that the PVC minis are being manufactured by the same factory that does the CMON figures?

  8. #8
    Kickstarter Backer Paul's Avatar
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    Pretty sure I saw that in one of the updates or comments back near the start of the campaign. Definitely the factory that dealt with the Conan boardgame. The figures for that are pretty good, but the figures from their follow up, Mythic Battles, were excellent.

  9. #9
    Kickstarter Backer Phaid's Avatar
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    It's one of the "myths" about resin minis that they hold detail better than metal. I've known a few casters in the trade and its something they always have to correct people about (ie leave a human hair on the green and it will appear on both the resin production mini and the metal).

    Historically resin minis first started appearing as large models (monsters/tanks etc), this was purely as a cost cutting measure (as to cast a large mini in metal would increase the retail price beyond what most people would pay). Now resin DOES have some advantages in casting, its better for filling large "thin" voids (such as a dragon wing). This is due to the longer "liguid" state you can maintain while casting (vs metal) as it cools, and this makes it easier for the caster to remove air from the void. So resin as a medium allows for thinner wings, cloaks etc vs metal, and if the sculptor knows the casting medium is going to be resin...then they will sculpt the master to that strength. The other main advantage is tooling (it costs less to produce a drop cast mold, however a professionally designed spin cast mold costs just as much as a metal mold (and usually doesn't last as long)).

    But resin also has some downsides. Its more fragile and prone to breakages. If the mini is drop cast, then there will be more vents to clean up (usually the case with short run mini releases) on the final production mini. Also resin minis are a lot more labour intensive (which is the main reason why they cost more) to produce.

    Basically the level of detail isn't dictated by the material used to cast, but rather the skill and experience of the sculptor and also (and much ignored) the skill and experience of the mold maker.

    Now on the PVC front, on that my knowledge is WAYYYY out of date. But I've seen the sedition wars minis that everyone says are horrible....but lets take another look at a direct comparison between the PVC and Resin http://handcannononline.com/blog/201...el-comparison/ .......

    As you can see there's actually not that much difference, and these are the minis lambasted as being the worst PVC minis ever (so why are they not also known as the worst resin minis ever?) Some of the points picked out (like belt buckles and rivets) have already been addressed as the years have passed as sculptors and mold makers have gained experience (Sedition Wars KS was 5 years ago). Personally I don't think they look that bad...but "the internetz" can't be wrong

    Overall the "myths" about resin are partly due to marketing (and convincing us to spend more money), "resin holds more detail" is a lot more appealing a reason to pay a premium vs "it takes a lot longer to produce". At the end of the day the best reason is if you like the mini, anything else is more subjective (and doesn't need to be ratified)

  10. #10
    Kickstarter Backer Paul's Avatar
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    I had sedition wars and those figures weren't really what most people think of as PVC figures, they were a very hard, brittle material that Mantic also used and called restic (technically PVC, but a very nasty mix). It was a resin/plastic hybrid that held detail quite well, but was a horror to work with as it tended to shatter as often as it cut and scraping of the badly placed mold lines was nigh on impossible, you had to cut them off.

    People tend to think of pvc figures as being like the old airfix or boardgame figures that were bendy and lacked detail. Even some of the Conan and Zombicide figures that were held up as an example of a good pvc figure weren't great in terms of detail and suffered from bendy-sword syndrome. Most of them, however are as detailed as metal or plastic figures

    The pvc ones that have heard nothing but positive comments about, however, are the Guild ball figures

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